Minutes of Alderton Road Safety Group Meeting
18th October, 6pm, at Corner Cottage, Stow Road, Alderton
Present: Keith Page, Jonathan Everitt, Roger Knapp, Rob Phillips, Gary Handley (Driver Training Manager, Gloucestershire County Council), Dave Collicott, (Road Safety & Traffic Management Officer) Jenny Wilks (Gloucestershire Highways) Jim Hinder, Paul Smith, Tamsin James (Clerk to Alderton Parish Council), Victoria Copas (from 7pm)
The meeting had been called in order to present the Road Safety Group’s Proposals document and discuss the viability of the suggestions. These were detailed under the following headings: Emphasise Community, Re-Appraise Lineage/Signage, Reconsider Speed Limit and Undertake Enforcement
Emphasise Community
The positioning of the gates was outlined to Jenny Wilks who agreed to check out the most sensible places eg not impinging on the drainage systems or visibility from farm gateways. The Highways design team would do the mechanics based on a proper scheme – Standish was a good example. As this was an extra scheme it would have to be fitted in amongst the other current schemes. A road safety audit would be required, which would provide an independent judgement on the design safety and also risk assess it.
Once the size of the gates had been determined then the type of signage for them could be worked out. It was agreed that Gary Handley would have input on the signage in order to produce effective messages. The Cultivation Licence would be completed once the type of cultivation was known.
The Parish Council had secured the telephone box as an asset and this could be a source of electricity supply in the future. The telephony equipment had been removed and the kiosk required some maintenance. A possible use as an information point was suggested, as once the verges were mown and manageable, the caravan site visitors may use it.
At present the verges were quite rough and initially Paul Dee might be asked to cut them in order to bring them into a more manageable state. Help from Gloucestershire Highways might be required in the beginning. If the verges around Frampton Cottages were cut more regularly then it would highlight a difference in this area, as opposed to the adjoining verges cut less often by Highways.
The provision of rural footpaths on either side of Frampton Cottages would have to be match funded through the Community Offer. In the past, however, this proposal had not scored highly enough. The verge from the Cottages to opposite the Campsite would probably be a more viable option. This would then link up with the footpath to Alderton (Winchcombe Way AAL/8/1) A ball park figure was required in order to check if the cost was realistic. Jenny Wilks and Keith Page would look at the verges.
Re-Appraise Lineage/Signage
The section of the B4077 between the garage and the Black Sheds would not now be surface dressed until the 2014/15 financial year. The patching works would take place in the new financial year. It had originally been planned that these works would take place sooner than the timing now agreed, but it did give more time to review the position of the white lining. Some patching may be done between now and the new financial year, on a percentage basis of what was structurally sound. Surface dressing of B roads was standard practice.
Under the structural maintenance strategy engineers inspected using data on what the carriageway was doing and traffic volumes were taken into consideration. At present there was a £90million backlog of maintenance provisions in the county.
The stretch of the B4077 between the Hobnails and Little Washbourne, which had not been surfaced in August, was being monitored on a monthly basis. This would continue as long as required. Scrim results were used to indicate how the surface was reacting.
Jenny Wilks advised that double white lines were not necessarily the right solution. Other suggestions were edge lines and generally making drivers aware of their surroundings. There was evidence to suggest that the most effective solution was to change driver’s perception. The most dramatic solution was a perception of the road narrowing eg edge markings, mock cycle lanes.
There was also a need to convey the dangers around the garage and the staggered junction area of the B4077.
Any proposals should look at the scheme as a whole and a road safety audit required everybody’s buy in. A change in the lineage at Frampton Cottages would be a waste of money before the surface dressing was undertaken. Other ideas could be tried in the meantime and Jenny Wilks was amenable to short term trials of suggestions with potential merit.
The installation of gateways should be a relatively quick process but the lining/signage required a timetable and proposals which should indicate the level of work required.
The order time for gates was not known and a date would have to be obtained from the designer, but it was hoped it would be in this financial year. Jenny Wilks agreed to re-send the e-mail of the Standish gates with ball park costings. It was agreed that Phase 1 would be the gateways, Phase 2 the lining at Frampton Cottages and Phase 3 the signage around the garage area.
Reconsider Speed Limit
Much collective research had been undertaken by the residents of Frampton Cottages and there was still a strong belief in reviewing the speed limits. They were aware, however, that other measures needed to be put in place first.
The village characteristics of Frampton were highlighted. It was in the “essence” of a village: 15 frontages in 475 yards and 80% occupancy at the Campsite.
Advisory speed limits were being trialled elsewhere in the county and details were available on the County Council website. Salterley Grange was an example where they had the support of the press. The introduction of advisory speed limits and a campaign at Frampton could be investigated. Quality of life was only one element in the consideration of a speed limit level in a particular area.
The TRO process could take some time, anything from 12 months to two years. TRO’s could be objected to which could slow up or stop the process. There was a cost implication of approximately £2k. The box for a speed survey could be installed within two weeks. Once the gateways were in place it was agreed that a speed survey should be carried out just before, just after and then some time later.
Residents had reported an incident of speeding but had been advised by the police at the time not to pursue it. At the meeting however they were advised to keep a record of incidents so persistent offenders could be targeted. Incidents should be reported via 101 and a request made for the police to log them. It was agreed that Dave Collicott would find out which officers were presently covering the Alderton area.
The parish had not written to local hauliers and it was questioned why lorries used the B4077 and not the A46. Jenny Wilks agreed to investigate the current lorry advisory routes and report back.
It was suggested that the group be pro-active with a campaign to highlight the problem of speed on the B4077. The County Council’s Cabinet were meeting on 24th October and would be discussing approaches to strengthening local member involvement in the prioritisation and delivery of highway works and to seek budgetary and delegated authority to develop an appropriate scheme. This scheme would allocate each County Councillor with £10,000 p.a. to spend on locally determined highway priorities. The group should therefore approach County Councillor Ron Allen regarding this. The Gloucestershire Echo had expressed an interest in the problems facing residents, but could only report when there was something tangible.
Undertake Enforcement
The options for enforcement were discussed. Mobile camera vans were placed according to collision history and warning signs were placed within 1km of the site when enforcing. Hand held speed guns usually targeted those that were felt to be exceeding the speed limit. Gretton residents were shortly going to be trained in the use of speed guns and Garry Handley agreed to advise on the date of this so Frampton/Alderton residents could also attend.
The only limitation on signs attached to the gateways was that they could be abusive. Community made ones appeared to be the most effective.
18th October, 6pm, at Corner Cottage, Stow Road, Alderton
Present: Keith Page, Jonathan Everitt, Roger Knapp, Rob Phillips, Gary Handley (Driver Training Manager, Gloucestershire County Council), Dave Collicott, (Road Safety & Traffic Management Officer) Jenny Wilks (Gloucestershire Highways) Jim Hinder, Paul Smith, Tamsin James (Clerk to Alderton Parish Council), Victoria Copas (from 7pm)
The meeting had been called in order to present the Road Safety Group’s Proposals document and discuss the viability of the suggestions. These were detailed under the following headings: Emphasise Community, Re-Appraise Lineage/Signage, Reconsider Speed Limit and Undertake Enforcement
Emphasise Community
The positioning of the gates was outlined to Jenny Wilks who agreed to check out the most sensible places eg not impinging on the drainage systems or visibility from farm gateways. The Highways design team would do the mechanics based on a proper scheme – Standish was a good example. As this was an extra scheme it would have to be fitted in amongst the other current schemes. A road safety audit would be required, which would provide an independent judgement on the design safety and also risk assess it.
Once the size of the gates had been determined then the type of signage for them could be worked out. It was agreed that Gary Handley would have input on the signage in order to produce effective messages. The Cultivation Licence would be completed once the type of cultivation was known.
The Parish Council had secured the telephone box as an asset and this could be a source of electricity supply in the future. The telephony equipment had been removed and the kiosk required some maintenance. A possible use as an information point was suggested, as once the verges were mown and manageable, the caravan site visitors may use it.
At present the verges were quite rough and initially Paul Dee might be asked to cut them in order to bring them into a more manageable state. Help from Gloucestershire Highways might be required in the beginning. If the verges around Frampton Cottages were cut more regularly then it would highlight a difference in this area, as opposed to the adjoining verges cut less often by Highways.
The provision of rural footpaths on either side of Frampton Cottages would have to be match funded through the Community Offer. In the past, however, this proposal had not scored highly enough. The verge from the Cottages to opposite the Campsite would probably be a more viable option. This would then link up with the footpath to Alderton (Winchcombe Way AAL/8/1) A ball park figure was required in order to check if the cost was realistic. Jenny Wilks and Keith Page would look at the verges.
Re-Appraise Lineage/Signage
The section of the B4077 between the garage and the Black Sheds would not now be surface dressed until the 2014/15 financial year. The patching works would take place in the new financial year. It had originally been planned that these works would take place sooner than the timing now agreed, but it did give more time to review the position of the white lining. Some patching may be done between now and the new financial year, on a percentage basis of what was structurally sound. Surface dressing of B roads was standard practice.
Under the structural maintenance strategy engineers inspected using data on what the carriageway was doing and traffic volumes were taken into consideration. At present there was a £90million backlog of maintenance provisions in the county.
The stretch of the B4077 between the Hobnails and Little Washbourne, which had not been surfaced in August, was being monitored on a monthly basis. This would continue as long as required. Scrim results were used to indicate how the surface was reacting.
Jenny Wilks advised that double white lines were not necessarily the right solution. Other suggestions were edge lines and generally making drivers aware of their surroundings. There was evidence to suggest that the most effective solution was to change driver’s perception. The most dramatic solution was a perception of the road narrowing eg edge markings, mock cycle lanes.
There was also a need to convey the dangers around the garage and the staggered junction area of the B4077.
Any proposals should look at the scheme as a whole and a road safety audit required everybody’s buy in. A change in the lineage at Frampton Cottages would be a waste of money before the surface dressing was undertaken. Other ideas could be tried in the meantime and Jenny Wilks was amenable to short term trials of suggestions with potential merit.
The installation of gateways should be a relatively quick process but the lining/signage required a timetable and proposals which should indicate the level of work required.
The order time for gates was not known and a date would have to be obtained from the designer, but it was hoped it would be in this financial year. Jenny Wilks agreed to re-send the e-mail of the Standish gates with ball park costings. It was agreed that Phase 1 would be the gateways, Phase 2 the lining at Frampton Cottages and Phase 3 the signage around the garage area.
Reconsider Speed Limit
Much collective research had been undertaken by the residents of Frampton Cottages and there was still a strong belief in reviewing the speed limits. They were aware, however, that other measures needed to be put in place first.
The village characteristics of Frampton were highlighted. It was in the “essence” of a village: 15 frontages in 475 yards and 80% occupancy at the Campsite.
Advisory speed limits were being trialled elsewhere in the county and details were available on the County Council website. Salterley Grange was an example where they had the support of the press. The introduction of advisory speed limits and a campaign at Frampton could be investigated. Quality of life was only one element in the consideration of a speed limit level in a particular area.
The TRO process could take some time, anything from 12 months to two years. TRO’s could be objected to which could slow up or stop the process. There was a cost implication of approximately £2k. The box for a speed survey could be installed within two weeks. Once the gateways were in place it was agreed that a speed survey should be carried out just before, just after and then some time later.
Residents had reported an incident of speeding but had been advised by the police at the time not to pursue it. At the meeting however they were advised to keep a record of incidents so persistent offenders could be targeted. Incidents should be reported via 101 and a request made for the police to log them. It was agreed that Dave Collicott would find out which officers were presently covering the Alderton area.
The parish had not written to local hauliers and it was questioned why lorries used the B4077 and not the A46. Jenny Wilks agreed to investigate the current lorry advisory routes and report back.
It was suggested that the group be pro-active with a campaign to highlight the problem of speed on the B4077. The County Council’s Cabinet were meeting on 24th October and would be discussing approaches to strengthening local member involvement in the prioritisation and delivery of highway works and to seek budgetary and delegated authority to develop an appropriate scheme. This scheme would allocate each County Councillor with £10,000 p.a. to spend on locally determined highway priorities. The group should therefore approach County Councillor Ron Allen regarding this. The Gloucestershire Echo had expressed an interest in the problems facing residents, but could only report when there was something tangible.
Undertake Enforcement
The options for enforcement were discussed. Mobile camera vans were placed according to collision history and warning signs were placed within 1km of the site when enforcing. Hand held speed guns usually targeted those that were felt to be exceeding the speed limit. Gretton residents were shortly going to be trained in the use of speed guns and Garry Handley agreed to advise on the date of this so Frampton/Alderton residents could also attend.
The only limitation on signs attached to the gateways was that they could be abusive. Community made ones appeared to be the most effective.